Q u o t e:
stating near idiotic statements like, "[if they] actually decided to give gold value and have balanced it around gold sinks" makes you look like a 5 year old idiot.
That statement is clearly the most idiotic thing someone could say.
How about you explain how gold sinks will stop gold inflation? Rather than just look like a tool by stating you believe in blizzard. Go ahead...how will gold sinks affect ANYTHING.
Let me point out. If you make gold sinks too costly, then players will return to town and their characters would be frozen. LOCKED. with no opportunity to continue with the game. Have you not thought of that? are you that stupid? Seriously?
Also, try explaining to me the difference between gold in D2 and gold in D3, without some benign comment like, "it will have value derp" ... what value? Gold in D2 had value..we just went over that. The problem is, it will not have enough value. Once player power reaches a specific spot, repair bills will drop. Once players find a safe farming location, death penalties will stop. The rest of the gold sinks are 100% optional.
Seriously...the intelligence in this forum is so freaking low, that it makes me want to shoot myself.
not sure if serious.
d2 gold was made for repair and that is basically it.
d3 gold is made for much more than that, and even AH thus they have to balance drop rates, amount of gold, max limit, amount of gold sinks around that.
You want me to give an answer how it all works?
%!## no... I can't... noone of us can't, not even you saying it will have 0 value.
Only blizzard really knows.
And saying you are at a stop?
really?
That basically means you can't kill the lowest lvl mob without spending any of the gold first...
If you are at 0 gold and need to repair something you can always go back and get some.
They can make gold sinks viable, I personally have to wait and see.
But d3 gold will definitly have more value than d2, because it has more purposes.
And because it has they have to balance it more properly.
Common game design.
But still not sure if you are serious.|||
Q u o t e:
My issue with the system is that there are two separate economies basically. Sure they are intrinsically tied together by the exchange rate. But when you look for an item, you have to search both Auction Houses, calculate the exchange rate, and then choose the best deal.
Can't you see that this is an issue?
Aside from Blizzard losing some fee income, can you tell me one con with simplifying the AH system into one single gold-based AH that allows purchasing/selling of gold only (not items) for real money. It is the same result, but in a much more efficient form.
THIS !!!|||
Q u o t e:
not sure if serious.
d2 gold was made for repair and that is basically it.
d3 gold is made for much more than that, and even AH thus they have to balance drop rates, amount of gold, max limit, amount of gold sinks around that.
You want me to give an answer how it all works?
%!## no... I can't... noone of us can't, not even you saying it will have 0 value.
Only blizzard really knows.
And saying you are at a stop?
really?
That basically means you can't kill the lowest lvl mob without spending any of the gold first...
If you are at 0 gold and need to repair something you can always go back and get some.
They can make gold sinks viable, I personally have to wait and see.
But d3 gold will definitly have more value than d2, because it has more purposes.
And because it has they have to balance it more properly.
Common game design.
But still not sure if you are serious.
you blindly believe that gold will have a value, without any real proof or reasoning. And youre asking if IM SERIOUS? really? rly? realay? come on now.
My point about being frozen is that it is no longer fun. If you return to find you spent too much due to obnoxious gold sinks, and have to then go farm act 1 monsters just to repair, that is breaking up the game pace. It is something blizzard will AVOID at all costs. Gold has far too many purposes to be able to be well balanced. It is used for NPC interaction...as an RPG element. It has no place as an economic currency used between players.
It must be found, and it must be accumulated. Go back and reread everything concerning item drops...watch videos and look at gold fall. This kind of stuff isnt going to drastically change in release. If you believe it will, youre dreaming. Gold is going to be everywhere. Inflation is going to be huge...gold is going to become worthless.
Im not talking about the first week, or month...obviously people will want to upgrade their artisans quickly, and craft items that require gold costs..and might value gold higher for that time frame. However...1 year down the road, after everyone has upgraded their artisans, and all the HUGE gold sink chunks are taken out of the equation; thats when it becomes utterly worthless. Gold will inflate to the point where selling a "pgem" equivalent item will net you enough to craft anything, because people will have nothing else to spend gold on.
The reason everyone thinks gold will work is due to WoWs economy. caps for emphasis: THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
WoW has vanity and cosmetic items galore.
How will D3 include gold sinks like epic flying?
How will D3 deal with new content that requires you to "max" dps and spend gold constantly to upgrade items? Enchanting will only have to be done once, and then the item will be traded as such. You can also choose not to enchant/spend huge amounts of gold on every item you find because you don't have to. You wait till you have one of the best...or trade for the best that is already enchanted.
How will D3 deal with progression? Will they require you to have full fledged teams to take down content? No. They stated that the entire game can be completed solo. Coop is there to make it more fun.
How is D3 going to make players feel obligated to spend gold on upgrades when players feel no need to maximize dps/hp/healing?
Gold works in WoW because its a different animal. They can get away with giving you a lot less gold, and can get away with charging a lot more. We haven't even talked about BoE and BoP yet.
The gold AH is not going to be used for high end items. It will be used as a simple time saver to help players fulfill their "optional" gold sinks such as artisans. If you think otherwise you are living in a dream world.
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Q u o t e:
How will D3 include gold sinks like epic flying?
How will D3 deal with new content that requires you to "max" dps and spend gold constantly to upgrade items? Enchanting will only have to be done once, and then the item will be traded as such. You can also choose not to enchant/spend huge amounts of gold on every item you find because you don't have to. You wait till you have one of the best...or trade for the best that is already enchanted.
How will D3 deal with progression? Will they require you to have full fledged teams to take down content? No. They stated that the entire game can be completed solo. Coop is there to make it more fun.
How is D3 going to make players feel obligated to spend gold on upgrades when players feel no need to maximize dps/hp/healing?
Gold works in WoW because its a different animal. They can get away with giving you a lot less gold, and can get away with charging a lot more. We having even talked about BoE and BoP yet.
The gold AH is not going to be used for high end items. It will be used as a simple time savor to help players fulfill their "optional" gold sinks such as artisans. If you think otherwise you are living in a dream world.
Ricky, you are thinking with a bad case of tunnel vision. You are talking about a bunch of differences between D2 and WoW, not D3. D3 will have other desirables, particularly those including Arena PVP. And it may well be that you have to spend buckets of game gold to keep rolling.
Bottom line: you are talking about false limitations on a game that is not out. You need to stop taking your position to literally, and know that nothing we say is set in stone, and that the theories other posters have is totally valid, just not in D2. Srsly, lighten up.|||
Q u o t e:
Ricky, you are thinking with a bad case of tunnel vision. You are talking about a bunch of differences between D2 and WoW, not D3. D3 will have other desirables, particularly those including Arena PVP. And it may well be that you have to spend buckets of game gold to keep rolling.
Bottom line: you are talking about false limitations on a game that is not out. You need to stop taking your position to literally, and know that nothing we say is set in stone, and that the theories other posters have is totally valid, just not in D2. Srsly, lighten up.
the "theories" others in this topic are posting are not based on logic.
Logically, we can assume that they will not make gold sinks too costly.
why is this so obvious and why can I assume this logically? Because I have played many many games and understand that it would not be fun to never have enough gold to continue playing. Being forced to farm for gold in between every few fights just to repair is not fun. Logically thus, it will not be part of the game.
Logically, from that, I can "infer" (another tough concept for people on this forum), that gold must then inflate in my inventory. Since they will not remove all my gold through gold sinks to prevent a bad gameplay experience, accumulation must be the logical alternative.
I can Logically assess the known gold sinks and see that many are optional. I can also see that many of them will be 1 time sinks. I can then logically assume that people will save their gold...if it is to have any inherent value at all. I can logically continue to do these logical assumptions until I come to my final conclusion: Gold will not be valuable.|||
Q u o t e:
the "theories" others in this topic are posting are not based on logic.
Logically, we can assume that they will not make gold sinks too costly.
why is this so obvious and why can I assume this logically? Because I have played many many games and understand that it would not be fun to never have enough gold to continue playing. Being forced to farm for gold in between every few fights just to repair is not fun. Logically thus, it will not be part of the game.
Logically, from that, I can "infer" (another tough concept for people on this forum), that gold must then inflate in my inventory. Since they will not remove all my gold through gold sinks to prevent a bad gameplay experience, accumulation must be the logical alternative.
I can Logically assess the known gold sinks and see that many are optional. I can also see that many of them will be 1 time sinks. I can then logically assume that people will save their gold...if it is to have any inherent value at all. I can logically continue to do these logical assumptions until I come to my final conclusion: Gold will not be valuable.
That is a lot of assumption. And most games do not have US currency as an alternate foundation. Accordingly, gold sinks may be pretty important here.
Simlarly, it may be that Blizzard doesn't want a bunch of guys running around with the equivalent of 'perfect' D2 gear all the time, blasting everything to bits. It may be that they want to keep it balanced through gold sinks, similar to what they did for repairs. Now since I personally hate repairs, I hope they keep it out, but the idea is that you have to pay for power. How they do it without screwing the game up is an issue, as is was un-fun the way it was in D2. That said, the foundation of money in this is DEFINITELY being tailored to provide more meaningful upgrades and costly services, so I imagine it will not be like it was in D2 AT ALL. So maybe and maybe not.
Now this is just one response to your probabilities that makes me think you have tunnel-vision. Your logic is based on ONE set of facts, and though logical, so are mine. You have got to crack that wall here, and let in a few ideas, or arguing with you will turn into flame or time-wasters for sure.|||
Q u o t e:
That is a lot of assumption. And most games do not have US currency as an alternate foundation. Accordingly, gold sinks may be pretty important here.
Simlarly, it may be that Blizzard doesn't want a bunch of guys running around with the equivalent of 'perfect' D2 gear all the time, blasting everything to bits. It may be that they want to keep it balanced through gold sinks, similar to what they did for repairs. Now since I personally hate repairs, I hope they keep it out, but the idea is that you have to pay for power. How they do it without screwing the game up is an issue, as is was un-fun the way it was in D2. That said, the foundation of money in this is DEFINITELY being tailored to provide more meaningful upgrades and costly services, so I imagine it will not be like it was in D2 AT ALL. So maybe and maybe not.
Now this is just one response to your probabilities that makes me think you have tunnel-vision. Your logic is based on ONE set of facts, and though logical, so are mine. You have got to crack that wall here, and let in a few ideas, or arguing with you will turn into flame or time-wasters for sure.
Im not following, though I respect your calm and collective manner of response, so i will reply the same way.
It might seem as though im being stubborn, or have "tunnel vision" but I am very open minded. I just simply have not heard any good...well, lets be honest, I haven't heard ANY reason why gold will work as a currency in any diablo game, whether its d2 or d3.
I keep hearing that gold is going to provide more meaningful upgrades, and services, as you said. I have never denied this, and its a good way to make gold be more necessary. However, since when does necessary ever denote valuable? Necessary in itself implies readily available.
I really am trying to understand why gold sinks will somehow make gold valuable..I really am..but you just telling me to "understand it" doesnt teach me anything. Please try and be more detailed. Explain, with a few examples why you think it will work. I'm sure if you do that, half way through typing it out you will start to see it from my side.
That being said, I would ask you to try and think outside of your own box, and try viewing this scenario from my point of view; just as you asked me to do. Ive provided many examples, all based on logical assumptions concerning our current knowledge of D3, knowledge of other games in general, WoW and peoples preconceived notion that the economies are similar(they arent), and examples of D2 to fill in the gaps.
But unfortunately, from the supported of gold, I have heard nothing except, "BELIEVE!"
Well, lets move past that. What do ya' got?
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Q u o t e:
That being said, I would ask you to try and think outside of your own box, and try viewing this scenario from my point of view; just as you asked me to do. Ive provided many examples, all based on logical assumptions concerning our current knowledge of D3, knowledge of other games in general, WoW and peoples preconceived notion that the economies are similar(they arent), and examples of D2 to fill in the gaps.
But unfortunately, from the supported of gold, I have heard nothing except, "BELIEVE!"
Well, lets move past that. What do ya' got?
Damn, I'm soooo late to my work. I have to get back, but this is like... crack. You gotta get your fix.
Anyway, you asked for a few things that would be meaningful 'sinks.'
And in this regard, it shouldn't be that damn hard to see. There are a lot of things that make a game more playable. Some are general mechanics (fixing your gear), and some are aesthetic (epic mounts). The combination of these two will make sense.
So the first thing that you can sink your money on is fixing and improving gear. This can always be done, as you will take time to get that perfect set. So there will be crafters that use the cash, jewelers who deal with upgrading and changing runes, and smiths, who repair or re-work armor, perhaps into higher sets, or create or socket items.
Next, you will have aesthetic improvements. This will probably be like your followers, who upgrade their facilities, though this is somewhat a 'necessary,' so it should be in the fixing and repairing group. Then there is PVP and gambling on duels. This will probably be like a bookie taking his 'rake' from the pot. Then there will be guilds and forums, all of which will likely absorb dollas by the bucket, but allow the players to control the state and structure of their guilds, all of which will be incorproated into the character though dedicated graphics of some kind. There were also ideas for dies and guild crests or standards, though I imagine that would be tough to integrate. There have been literally TONS of ideas, only a fragment I can mention here.
So, in the end, there are lots of potential things that could take your gold from you. Some you will need, some you will only need if you feel like bragging. In either case, there are absolutely things you will want that Blizzard could cause your cash to disappear from you through.|||What you're suggesting is likely the way the market will end up on its own. After all, if you have a leet item to sell, you will likely sell it in the gold auction house because there's where the biggest market is and you'll get the best price for your item. Then you'll turn around and sell the gold on the rmah.
It would actually be a bit silly to sell a great item on the rmah, because odds are you won't get as much as if you sold it on the gold auction house and resold the gold for real dollars.|||
Q u o t e:
So the first thing that you can sink your money on is fixing and improving gear. This can always be done, as you will take time to get that perfect set. So there will be crafters that use the cash, jewelers who deal with upgrading and changing runes, and smiths, who repair or re-work armor, perhaps into higher sets, or create or socket items.
I've addressed this ... Crafters are options, as are jewelers, smiths, and any other artisan craft. Even upgrading your artisan is optional.
Regardless, you will not be upgrading every single piece of equipment you get. There will be many times you hold off in order to save money.
Lets assume gold somehow becomes currency. Why would you waste it in order to upgrade a useless item that already allows you to farm a positive amount of gold when you could just save your money until you get "the best item on the gold AH" and upgrade that? Right..no one in their right mind would.
The bottom line is..there will be large gaps in time where players are not upgrading their equipment, and not spending gold on anything other than repairs. There will also be players who obtain a satisfactory amount of items and seek to farm gold as their sole activity. This is logic.
Logic would also dictate that there will also be players who spend all their gold...however, they would have to do so at a rate that is faster than the collective playerbase is earning it in order to curb inflation. Is that possible? I don't think so. They would need multiple characters, they would need to VERY QUICKLY find items to trade for gold (since using gold they found would not affect the economy at all), and would need to constantly upgrade artisans at a pace that just seems impossible...they would also have to be actively trying to spend massive amounts of gold.
So with that, I can logically conclude that gold will inflate despite gold sinks because 1. they are optional. 2. the ones that aren't optional decline in effectiveness as play skill and item power grow
Q u o t e:
Next, you will have aesthetic improvements. This will probably be like your followers, who upgrade their facilities, though this is somewhat a 'necessary,' so it should be in the fixing and repairing group. Then there is PVP and gambling on duels. This will probably be like a bookie taking his 'rake' from the pot. Then there will be guilds and forums, all of which will likely absorb dollas by the bucket, but allow the players to control the state and structure of their guilds, all of which will be incorproated into the character though dedicated graphics of some kind. There were also ideas for dies and guild crests or standards, though I imagine that would be tough to integrate. There have been literally TONS of ideas, only a fragment I can mention here.
These are ideas for gold sinks...I don't recall asking for specific gold sinks..i was asking exactly why you think they will curb the inflation rate and somehow make gold useful. Even if 1 single player does nothing but save gold...the economic rate of inflation will increase.
Q u o t e:
So, in the end, there are lots of potential things that could take your gold from you. Some you will need, some you will only need if you feel like bragging. In either case, there are absolutely things you will want that Blizzard could cause your cash to disappear from you through.
And again, i'm not arguing that there cant be gold sinks...im not quite sure where youre getting that idea from. I'm asking you to explain how those gold sinks are going to prevent gold from becoming useless as an economic currency between players.
Now let me define useless in my way of thinking. I acknowledged already that gold will have its uses. So in the sense of interaction between player and NPC, and player and Blizzard, gold will have many uses. You will want gold to fulfill all the gold sinks you mentioned.
Now, im going to have to make another assumption. I assume blizzard will not adjust gold costs of NPC vendors as the amount of gold in the economy increases. This would make it very hard for new players to play the game in the way it was meant to be played and would make it impossible for them to solo the game without trading items to other players for huge amounts of gold. So therefore, they will not raise prices.
Which means, as gold accumulates throughout the economy, people will trade more and more gold for specific items. As an example, lets just pretend that after 1 year, people will trade 3x's the average cost to craft a high end item for a lvl 20 unique. Now that example might not be perfect, but the core idea is based on the logic discussed in the above paragraph. The rapid rate of inflation will make the cost of NPC and other gold sinks negligible.
So how do you stop that without entering that "frozen character" dilemma?|||to the OP this is the way secondlife handles things, it creates are great exchange rate for in-gamegold and real currency.
But blizzard implementation allows for anything to trade for money, benefit of this is if gold succumbs to hyperinflation again as seen in D2, everything else still has a trade value for money and the RMAH can live on.
Having only gold trade able for currency, all markets will be deserted once gold loses value
sort of a backup plan if you will that blizzard has come up with|||Gold = Items and Gold = $$ and Money = Gold is a superior way to do this. It's one of the best ways I know of to solidify the value of ingame gold vs money.
Spiral Knights is the PERFECT way to setup an Economy. If D3's AH were setup like this with an ability to "cash out" it'd be perfect.
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