Q u o t e:
Why?
1. Because I can
2. Because I like to
3. Don't need a reason
4. Died in Hardcore
5. Meta-games
6. Social activity|||a few reasons to relevel
1. high lvl mules.... my invitory stayed so full i had to lvl them up so i could get items on the toon themselfs
2. quest abilities and rewards...i wanted to socket every item i had : ) how many items did you imbue : )
3. hellforge baby....runes if your lucky
4. lvling with friends...im not gettin hardly no xp frome helping my newb buddy hes to many lvls below me so might as well make a new class or toon his lvl
5. mabe name changing or stat allowcation
6. diablo 3 is the greatest game in the world and you cant stop playing and farming and making toons (were all going to need theropy)
i know some this was d2 specific but its the same principle
its enough reasons for me .. number 6 was enough for me : )|||Well ultimately I think you'll end up creating new characters to play with other groups of people like Bashiok said. However, if you truely look at it, you would technically only need one character per class, because you can change up your skills at will as well as your runes. It's the sets of gear that coincide with these different playstyles. With the shared stash, you can only have so much room to put gear in, but I guess thats only theoretical since we don't know exactly how large the stash is.
I personally would end up having at least one of each class and then start new characters to play with friends as they start to play the game.|||The point for me is build identity.
I won't be making a Blizzard/Ray of Frost/Hydra Wizard... I'll just be making a Wizard. Sure I will focus her on these skills with gear and runes, but I can change her loadout on a whim.
I understand the logic in allowing unrestricted changes. Yes, it is easier. But it is a logical fallacy (for me), in that it bypasses one of the huge points of Diablo. Builds. It is easier, but the point is for it not to be easy.
There needs to be some semblance of consequence for decisions. I understand that gaming is moving away from this in general, but I just wish it wasn't the case for Diablo III.|||Why can't you just level up one character using one set of skills/runes, and then if you want to experiment just make a new character?
Just because you CAN switch your build etc whenever you feel like it doesn't mean you HAVE to.
Ex: Level up one Wizard focusing on AoE skills with AoE/mana reduction runes as your focus. Then, instead of just switching her stuff around, make a new Wizard focusing on defensive skills and high-damage single-target abilities for PvP. Rune your abilities to enhance defense or add crowd-control effects.
Why is this an issue? Play the game however you want to play it. Blizzard isn't going to wtfban you if you never swap your skills around.
Personally if I create a character with a specific build in mind, I'm most likely going to keep him/her that build. If I want to experiment I'll probably create a new character, especially because leveling using a different set of abilities than I did the first time will be a different experience|||
Q u o t e:
I will probably end up having two (or more) of the same class leveling, since I'll have a character that I play with my co-workers, and then a different character that I play with family, and then a different character that I play alongside my best friend, etc.
Same here, well that is if the character limit wasn't 10.
There's no leg room if I want to experience hardcore and normal. I get one of each class.
Kind of sad when you consider D2 was unlimited. At least if it had 12, I could reroll with friends.|||The real question is, what is stopping you from doing it anyway?
Since you like grinding and tweaking character points, deleting and remaking, trying to get that perfect build, then do it. No one said you CAN'T build 10 Wizards just to waste your time and make different builds, it just doesn't make any sense, hence the awesome feature to swap abilities.
If you get to 60 and don't like your build, feel free to start a new one from scratch and do it differently. It's your life, live it how you want to.
EDIT: also, where do you guys get this 'D2 is unlimited' stuff? I just checked to make sure, and I can only make 8 characters on Battle.net, even less than the 10 they give us in D3. Most games only give you 3-5 character slots per server, Blizzard is giving you 10, stop being greedy. Character slots = hard drive space == money. You can have as many character slots as you want, it will just cost you $50.00 per 10.|||
Q u o t e:
I understand the logic in allowing unrestricted changes. Yes, it is easier. But it is a logical fallacy (for me), in that it bypasses one of the huge points of Diablo. Builds. It is easier, but the point is for it not to be easy.
Kind of like how removing stat distribution bypasses the Fun and Unique™ system of assigning stats on level, am I right?
Strength: Enough for gear, or zero with charms.
Dexterity: Enough for max block, or zero.
Vitality: Everything else.
Energy: Nothing.
Oh boy, who didn't have a blast with that.
Are you also upset because the shared stash will bypass another "huge point" of Diablo: Transfer Roulette™? Will your items be there when you get back? Will you get realmed down? Who knows!? That's what makes it fun, right?
If the process of re-leveling characters is what's most fun for you, I'm totally cool with that. Nobody is going to stop you from deleting and remaking your characters whenever you max them out.
What I've got a problem with is when the vocal minority who hates change attempts to push that ideology on everyone else by putting all of the anti-fun gameplay mechanics of D2 on a pedestal, and holding them up as "What Diablo is all about".|||
Q u o t e:
Kind of like how removing stat distribution bypasses the Fun and Unique™ system of assigning stats on level, am I right?
Strength: Enough for gear, or zero with charms.
Dexterity: Enough for max block, or zero.
Vitality: Everything else.
Energy: Nothing.
Oh boy, who didn't have a blast with that.
Are you also upset because the shared stash will bypass another "huge point" of Diablo: Transfer Roulette™? Will your items be there when you get back? Will you get realmed down? Who knows!? That's what makes it fun, right?
If the process of re-leveling characters is what's most fun for you, I'm totally cool with that. Nobody is going to stop you from deleting and remaking your characters whenever you max them out.
Whoa... settle down. What did I do to you to get you so mad?
For one, I have no problem with the attribute system as it stands. The Diablo II system was shallow and needed to be changed.
Secondly, I love the shared stash. You're confusing something that is annoying with something that is fundamental to gameplay.
I'm not talking about re-leveling for the sake of re-leveling. I'm talking about build identity and consequences of your decisions. There is a point in a game when you're given everything... and the gameplay just becomes empty.
Q u o t e:
What I've got a problem with is when the vocal minority who hates change attempts to push that ideology on everyone else by putting all of the anti-fun gameplay mechanics of D2 on a pedestal, and holding them up as "What Diablo is all about"
I'm sorry that you have a problem with someone's opinion. Maybe you shouldn't read forums? I'm not trying to push anything on anyone. I'm simply stating how I feel.
It is my opinion that having unique builds (that were character defining) was not an "anti-fun" gameplay mechanic in Diablo II.
I can still have unique builds in Diablo III. I will still make multiple characters of the same class because there is nothing stopping me. My only problem is that the build is not character defining. We are now just Wizards, Barbarians, etc. No longer are we defined by our skill choices, since they are not constrained in any way.
I'm simply talking about the possibility of a compromise. Keep skill changes free/unlimited until you beat Normal or even Nightmare. Then skill changes will cost gold at an escalating rate, so that end-game characters will most likely have to make smart choices, or pay for the consequences.|||Time has shown with Diablo 2 and many other games that gamers don't want to feel cheated forever if they accidentally put a point in energy by accident.
It's totally dumb to NOT have respecialization. If you want to play through as a totally different build just name your characters by what skills they're going to focus on so you won't feel tempted to respec. MrFireball, MrZombieWall, MrBlizzard, etc.
If you don't think you can generate enough replay value from the game as it is you shouldn't even bother buying it. Go out to a fancy dinner instead.|||People will build cookie cutter builds regardless of your need to feel like a unique individual.
Its called FOTM (flavor of the month). People see what works, and they build it. Then the developers nerf or give more power to other classes / skills so then the new wave of FOTM characters are made.
Just because you want to feel special, doesn't mean the rest of us, who don't find our 'identity' through a game, should be made to suffer.
You want to only be able to spend your skill points one time and have to start over whenever you find a better build, or when they nerf or boost a skill, then do it. Show some self control. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you HAVE to.
You are worried that you will stumble across some sweet build that no one else will find, and once people learn it, they will just pop into town and respec to your build? Well wake up call my friend, it will happen anyway.|||
Q u o t e:
I will probably end up having two (or more) of the same class leveling, since I'll have a character that I play with my co-workers, and then a different character that I play with family, and then a different character that I play alongside my best friend, etc.
Not to mention HC? You do play HC, right??|||
Q u o t e:
Whoa... settle down. What did I do to you to get you so mad?
Nobody here is mad, kiddo. Don't know where you're getting that impression.
Q u o t e:
For one, I have no problem with the attribute system as it stands. The Diablo II system was shallow and needed to be changed.
Secondly, I love the shared stash. You're confusing something that is annoying with something that is fundamental to gameplay.
I'm not "confusing"
Q u o t e:
I'm not talking about re-leveling for the sake of re-leveling. I'm talking about build identity and consequences of your decisions.
Hate to break it to you, but Diablo has never been a deep, story-driven RPG. It's a hack'n'slash dungeon crawler where the sole carrot on a stick is that next piece of awesome loot. The "consequences of your decisions" are that you'll need to farm new runes (with the desired random stats) for the new skills you just switched to.
Q u o t e:
There is a point in a game when you're given everything... and the gameplay just becomes empty.
Hyperbole.
Q u o t e:
I'm sorry that you have a problem with someone's opinion. Maybe you shouldn't read forums? I'm not trying to push anything on anyone. I'm simply stating how I feel.
I don't know, petitioning for Blizzard to shoehorn in a change to satisfy your neurosis that everyone would have to suffer through seems a lot like trying to push your "opinion" on the rest of the playerbase to me.
Q u o t e:
It is my opinion that having unique builds (that were character defining) was not an "anti-fun" gameplay mechanic in Diablo II.
You're joking right? D2 was nothing but cookie cutter builds, and then a few players using non-viable builds here and there to feel like special little snowflakes.
Oh boy, left click Hammer, right click Concentration aura. That's some character defining fun right there.
Left click Concentrate, right click Whirlwind. Oh, the variety!
Q u o t e:
I can still have unique builds in Diablo III. I will still make multiple characters of the same class because there is nothing stopping me. My only problem is that the build is not character defining. We are now just Wizards, Barbarians, etc. No longer are we defined by our skill choices, since they are not constrained in any way.
Having to farm/buy new runes with the stats you want for every single skill in your repertoire seems like a decent constraint to me. I'm not sure why you're so stuck on wanting characters to be tied to a small set of skills, when the skills you'll want to use will change every time you group with a different player. This isn't going to be like Diablo 2, where each class had 2-3 decent attack skills total (The rest being worthless) so you picked one, stuck it on Mouse2 and right clicked your way through the entire game.
We can assume that every attack is going to be viable, and that gives you a hell of a lot of variety in whichever way you choose to deliver the pain.
Q u o t e:
I'm simply talking about the possibility of a compromise. Keep skill changes free/unlimited until you beat Normal or even Nightmare. Then skill changes will cost gold at an escalating rate, so that end-game characters will most likely have to make smart choices, or pay for the consequences.
But how does that fix your perceived problem of "build defined" characters? If you can just throw gold at it (since you can buy gold with real money, that wouldn't be a problem) and respec whenever you want, how does that suddenly make the characters "build defined"? Your arguments seem very contradictory.|||
Q u o t e:
Originally posted by Synxx
Nobody here is mad, kiddo. Don't know where you're getting that impression.
Probably when you do something as douchey as calling someone "kiddo".
Q u o t e:
Hate to break it to you, but Diablo has never been a deep, story-driven RPG. It's a hack'n'slash dungeon crawler where the sole carrot on a stick is that next piece of awesome loot. The "consequences of your decisions" are that you'll need to farm new runes (with the desired random stats) for the new skills you just switched to.
And.../whoosh you don't get the point.
I didn't read the rest of the babbling, sorry.
|||
Q u o t e:
You're implying that's a bad thing.
Let's be honest here, D2 is incredibly shallow. What D2 boils down to is a joyless rush to get to Hell so you can run a single boss over and over to farm gear... to be better at farming gear. Eventually you get bored because using the same 2-3 skills to run the same boss over and over and over is mind-numbingly dull, so you make a new character and the cycle continues.
Now, what if you didn't need to run the same boss over and over to get awesome loot. What if you could get good loot just by playing the game as it was meant to be played.
What if you didn't need to repeatedly re-level characters because they got boring, because your characters had a large pool of viable skills to choose from, and could mix and match and rune them however you wanted, whenever you wanted.
I don't know about you, but D3 sounds like it'll be a lot more fun than D2, and this is coming from someone who has been playing since 2000 and has dropped hundreds of hours (probably 1k+) on it.
Well put man, I understand this.
I think you understood where I was coming from too, I mean anyone with so much game time in D2 should...|||
Q u o t e:
This is easily done on the same toon as you can remove/change skills/runes at will...right? Why would I go through the whole process when I can just stash the two different sets and change it up in town.
I guess it is kind of like WoW, when you have a level 85 Druid? (is that max level now?) you don't need to relevel the class at all as you can change everything just by paying a few bucks
I think you mean One in-game gold. Or you can pay 10 in-game gold and have duel specialization which allows you to change between builds at will.
D3 sounds like D2 after the Token was added.
People make more than 1 character of the same class to bot once they are bored of D2 and the majority of it's retarded players.
Would I remake a Necromancer, named xxXGR_BxNoobX if I obtained the unique name Death?
You are damn right I would and that's why godly players, like myself, have no problem doing that.
It's also entertaining to us to make all nubs and inferior players to cry and rage because we are simply better than them at this game. On top of that, it keeps idiots who shouldn't be playing games like this to begin with to go back to their First Person Shooters and Sports.|||
Q u o t e:
Well put man, I understand this.
I think you understood where I was coming from too, I mean anyone with so much game time in D2 should...
I do, I just think that it's not going to be an issue. With the huge variety of skills/rune combinations and being able to run through any part of the game that you want for good items, I don't see endgame getting boring with a level 60 of each class to play with and future content being created.
In D2, re-leveling was nothing more than a hurdle that players sought to get through as quickly as possible.
At best, you'd clear a few Trist runs until 15, Arcane Sanctuary or Tomb runs until 24, Ancients for 25, and Normal Baal runs to 44. Then you could pretty much skip nightmare entirely, go do ancients for 45 and then NM Baal to 64, repeating the process in Hell until you were at your desired level. All in all, that's about 6 hours of work.
Or you could get glitch rushed in 20 minutes, and hit ~85 in an hour of AFKing in Uber Tristram while you went and payed some bills or whatever.
Initially, leveling is quite fun; but eventually it gets old and becomes another hurdle. I think after leveling 10 characters to 60 you'll get it out of your system (and if not, you can just delete them and do it all over again) and will be able to start having fun with Inferno.|||Blizzard don't seem to think that's a genuinely enjoyable thing to do, hence the hamstringing of the concept.|||Well eventually after leveling a few character by myself, with friends or with some random HC group I will be forced to create a new character of the same class. Sure the 10 slot limit will put a huge damper onto that but I will still delete my old 60s to create a new character of the same class.
Leveling was/is my favorite part of Diablo 2, not the Baalruns mind you, just going through all the quests as fast as possible with an appropriate leveled group. And once I hit ~85, guess what I'll be doing? Right, start a new character.
In D3 you could argue that leveling the same character a second time is a waste of time because you automagically have all active and passive skills available at 60. But what about choosing different skills while you slowly progress through the game? I think picking different skills early in the game when you only have 2-3 active skillslots will change the way you play your character quite a bit. Add in runes you didn't consider using on your last play-through and you're in for a whole new experience.
D2 has had some rewards associated with creating new characters, you could use quest rewards to gain powerful runes and socket weapons to become the ultimate piece of gear for a certain runeword. Charsies imbue was also a great source for rare circlets and other useful items. Maybe D3 has similar Quest rewards?
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Q u o t e:
...its fun to restart your character
Isn't this a reason enough to re-level? Besides 0-60 isn't really that long of a process. Shouldn't be more than about couple of weeks for casual, couple of days for serious and couple of hours for rush player.
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